Too much up the back of the ball?

[Amyers]

I was recently talking with my PSO when he told me I'm too much up the back of the ball and I need to come around the ball more. What does this mean? It's not the first time I've heard this in regard to my release. If I'm up the back of the ball I have to be underneath and behind the ball so my hand is in the right spot but apparently their is something I'm missing here. If any of you coaches out there can explain the difference in motion I would love to hear it.

[bowl1820]

Rob and others may have a differing view.

When you coming up the back of the ball,It's more of a flat handed, behind the ball release. Your putting more forward roll on it and not much side turn on it.

It's like, imagine having a can of soup in your hand and you roll it off your hand straight down the lane. Your behind the can and coming up the back up it.

[RobLV1]

I was recently talking with my PSO when he told me I'm too much up the back of the ball and I need to come around the ball more. What does this mean? It's not the first time I've heard this in regard to my release. If I'm up the back of the ball I have to be underneath and behind the ball so my hand is in the right spot but apparently their is something I'm missing here. If any of you coaches out there can explain the difference in motion I would love to hear it.

You are right in that your hand is in the right spot to start your release. What you are not doing is turning your hand through the ball during your release, most probably due to timing issues. My latest article, posted on BTM is entitled, "Working the Inside of the Ball." You might want to give it a look as I believe that it gives a pretty good explanation of the modern release, and what you need to do to get there... if you are willing to put in the effort.

[Aslan]

The best way I can describe the difference is if you're properly coming THROUGH the ball...you'll feel your thumb come out and the ball coming off your fingertips. The angle of your hand/fingertips determines how much axis rotation you'll have. If you come THROUGH the ball with your hand/fingers straight...= 0 axis rotation...the ball will essentially go straight. Many people throw a strike ball at corner pins by "flattening their release" in this way.

And that is what confused me for almost 2 years....I was coming up the back of the ball...but when I did there was very little axis rotation. My hand was just setting the ball down and my fingers came up the back and it rolled mostly straight.

Once I switched to 15lbs, I was able to better get under the ball and flip my hand THROUGH the ball and then I felt the ball coming off my fingertips...and "SHAZAM"...suddenly all the "through the ball" stuff made sense.

I don't know why the PSO would want you to come more up the side. But I'll have to look at Rob's article. I'm still getting caught up with the archived stuff.

[Amyers]

The best way I can describe the difference is if you're properly coming THROUGH the ball...you'll feel your thumb come out and the ball coming off your fingertips. The angle of your hand/fingertips determines how much axis rotation you'll have. If you come THROUGH the ball with your hand/fingers straight...= 0 axis rotation...the ball will essentially go straight. Many people throw a strike ball at corner pins by "flattening their release" in this way.

And that is what confused me for almost 2 years....I was coming up the back of the ball...but when I did there was very little axis rotation. My hand was just setting the ball down and my fingers came up the back and it rolled mostly straight.

Once I switched to 15lbs, I was able to better get under the ball and flip my hand THROUGH the ball and then I felt the ball coming off my fingertips...and "SHAZAM"...suddenly all the "through the ball" stuff made sense.

I don't know why the PSO would want you to come more up the side. But I'll have to look at Rob's article. I'm still getting caught up with the archived stuff.

My ball does hook often too much or better said to early. I got the feeling from the conversation that he thinks that why a lot of balls tend to hook early for me. I'm going to have to go back and talk to him about exactly what he meant. He was talking with one of the local PBA 50 guys about my ball and I didn't want to interrupt with my usual 10,000 questions. Guess I'm going to need to break down and get the BTM subscription been meaning to just never seem to get around to it.

[Tony]

Besides getting behind the ball and then rotating your hand / fingers around the side as you release the thumb, there is also the older method we call the suitcase or handshake where you hold the ball with the thumb at about 10 o'clock and keep it there through the swing and release, the ball falls off your thumb and you get some reasonable rotation on the ball.
This would be used by a stroker type bowler and we have many guys in the leagues around here using it and averaging over 200

Not sure but it's possible you pso could be talking about this.

[Aslan]

This would be used by a stroker type bowler and we have many guys in the leagues around here using it and averaging over 200

Wait. I used to do that and didn't average NEAR 200. Dammit.

I keep hearing about everyone averaging near 200 after bowling for like 2 months or bowling with a 70s style release or bowling backwards and it's like..WTH MAN!!! I'm working my BEHIND off just trying to get to 193 for crying out loud. I'm starting to think bowling is like racquetball...I never could quite figure out racquetball. Everyone else seemed to get it...but it never made sense to me. You hit this tiny rubber ball at what seemed to be the speed of light...and then it bounces around the room and you have to try and hit...I'm assuming before it kills someone...but I have no idea. Maybe bowling just "ain't my game". Like basketball...I'm tall...but I suck at basketball. I went to a basketball CAMP once...that just cemented my feeling that I really sucked at basketball.

Then...on the other hand...my first lesson with Mark Baker...the first video he shot and analyzed...almost textbook. A "slight" variation from perfect based on where the ball was in the swing as my head moved past my knee. Granted, videos 2 and 3....didn't look so great. But the point is...there's gold in that there mine...we're just not sure if we can get to it.

[Amyers]

Wait. I used to do that and didn't average NEAR 200. Dammit.

I keep hearing about everyone averaging near 200 after bowling for like 2 months or bowling with a 70s style release or bowling backwards and it's like..WTH MAN!!! I'm working my BEHIND off just trying to get to 193 for crying out loud. I'm starting to think bowling is like racquetball...I never could quite figure out racquetball. Everyone else seemed to get it...but it never made sense to me. You hit this tiny rubber ball at what seemed to be the speed of light...and then it bounces around the room and you have to try and hit...I'm assuming before it kills someone...but I have no idea. Maybe bowling just "ain't my game". Like basketball...I'm tall...but I suck at basketball. I went to a basketball CAMP once...that just cemented my feeling that I really sucked at basketball.

Then...on the other hand...my first lesson with Mark Baker...the first video he shot and analyzed...almost textbook. A "slight" variation from perfect based on where the ball was in the swing as my head moved past my knee. Granted, videos 2 and 3....didn't look so great. But the point is...there's gold in that there mine...we're just not sure if we can get to it.

I know that feeling. Truthfully I've never worked much on my release because I don't seem to understand more than the basic mechanics behind it. I still release the ball the same way I did back in my YABA (just with less wrist cup cause I'm old now and can't do that crap anymore) days. I've averaged over and around 200 before with my current release but I'm trying to improve so I guess I'm going to have to figure it out. I think going suitcase style would be a step backwards from where I'm at out now. The problem I've got is not that I can't hook the ball it's the way I hook the ball that needs to improve.

[Tony]

Asian, how about this guy for a bowling coach ? I can try and track him down, he sometimes comes down after our wed night league to practice!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex5iwpBHhdw


He set a world record bowling backwards / 280

[Tony]

I know that feeling. Truthfully I've never worked much on my release because I don't seem to understand more than the basic mechanics behind it. I still release the ball the same way I did back in my YABA (just with less wrist cup cause I'm old now and can't do that crap anymore) days. I've averaged over and around 200 before with my current release but I'm trying to improve so I guess I'm going to have to figure it out. I think going suitcase style would be a step backwards from where I'm at out now. The problem I've got is not that I can't hook the ball it's the way I hook the ball that needs to improve.

I'm certainly no expert but the behind the ball and suitcase appear to just be a couple of different ways to get a low axis tilt release providing a moderate amount of hook, certainly personal preference should also play a role in what you use. The best one to use is probably the one you can consistently repeat shot after shot. The suitcase can be adjusted somewhat by turning your hand/ thumb between say 9 o'clock and 11 o'clock for the desired amount of hook required, just as you can rotate your fingers slightly less of more with a more behind the ball release.