Flat 10 vs Ring 10
Several years ago I reas an article (I think it was in Bowler's Journal) that talked about the difference between leaving a Flat 10 and a Ring 10 and a way to correct each. My addled brain cannot remember the tips. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!
lA ringing ten is caused by the ball coming into the pocket slightly behind the head pin. The adjustment is to move a board right (for a right hander) or slightly back on the approach. A flat ten is caused by the ball losing energy before it gets to the pocket. The adjustment is usually to make a small move to the left to find a little more oil to conserve the energy in the ball until it reaches the pocket with the energy to knowck down all the pins.
Please, lets do away with terminology that has no basis in fact.Originally Posted by RobLV1
On the surface, a ringing 10 pin appears to be a solid pocket shot, but the 6 pin flies up an around the 10 pin, ending in the pit.
To appear to be a solid pocket shot, the ball can't come into the pocket slightly behind the head pin.
If it did, what would have hit the 2 pin?
Ok so lets assume we hit the head pin such that the head pin was driven directly towards the 7 pin.
What causes the ringing 10 pin is slightly too much deflection of the ball. Instead of the ball hitting the 3 pin at a position that drives the 3 pin directly towards the 10, the ball deflects a little bit further to the right.
This drives the 3 pin into the 6 a little bit left of directly in line with the 10 pin. The 6 pin is sent on a path just to the right of the 10 pin, off the side board, and into the pit.
If you move a board right, or back, you are likely to no longer hit the head pin in a way to drive it towards the 7 pin.
You need to adjust in a way that both decreases the deflection, and maintains the location at which the ball contacts the head pin.
The difference between a ringing 10 pin, and a flat 10 is in how much the ball deflects.
Since the ball deflects more, the 3 is driven into the 6 pin even further left of the line towards the 10. This time the path the 6 takes is just to the gutter.
With the modern core ball, the energy level of the core (rev rate) has a great deal to do with the amount the ball deflects.
One scenario is when the ball has encountered too much friction before contacting the pins, the energy has dissipated allowing for too much deflection.
However another scenario is when that ball had encounter too little friction, and the revs have not built up, and the ball has not slowed down.
This happens on a THS when someone plays a shot like straight up 13. The ball skids all the way to the end of the oil pattern, then begins to increase revs. It contacts the pins well before the revs and speed are matched.
The ball deflects in the same way as encountering too much friction, but the solution is drastically different.
Ok Rob,, your Rebutal???
Iceman is waiting 4 response,,,, from Rob! I need to get the ringing/flat 10 pin figured out!!
What about that 4 pin leave guys!! I know its from coming up high on the head pin! Or the 7/10 leave???
Last edited by MICHAEL; 03-08-2014 at 11:38 PM.
Don't walk on Thin Ice!
No rebuttal. I said what I have to say, and I stick by it. I'm tired of arguing. I do what I can to try and help bowlers to improve. I'm really not interested in convincing anyone that I'm right about anything. If you choose to listen to what I have to say, great. If you'd rather listen to Mike White, or anyone else for that matter, I have no problem with that. The fact that bowlers are looking to improve, and coming here and to other forums for advice is a very good thing. The only thing that's tough about it is determining whose advice to take, and whose to ignore. That, my friend, is up to you.
ICEMAN for ONE!!
appreciates your comments, and knowledge! Keep it coming!!!
Don't walk on Thin Ice!
What terminology has no basis in fact?
Up until a few years ago I would have driven either you or Rob crazy as a teammate since I did not adjust off any ten pin leave. when I was younger my reaction would have been, "good shot, I got nine out of it!" Later it would have been, "darn, I just didn't throw it good enough."
Now I do adjust most of the time. For flat tens I move 1/2 board out. Yes Rob, I know this shouldn't work but I would say that for me it does at least 70% of the time. For ringing tens I move about 6" back on the approach. I don't remember a single time that this hasn't worked, at least if I've rolled the ball over my target.
I know I'm on the slower side (14-15mph according to the scorer) but if I try sending the ball straight down 13 I'll be lucky to touch the headpin on Brooklyn side.
John
Check out this guy.
USBC # 1560-51218
Not as bad as biilf, but the talk, is bigger than the walk.
Opinion expressed with confidence, is still opinion.
If you peel back the layers, the facts should support the opinion.
But if you're not "allowed" to peel back the layers, all you really have is opinion.
I often thought
I often thought ???? had a half dozen bowling books in his computer room, and he would just paraphrase them for many of his responses..
I look back at many of his threads, and I some time wonder if 30 percent of what he said was even close to the truth! His war stories, ???? lol was he even in the military??? who knows or cares!
Once You Catch a person lying, its hard to take anything they say serious!
I knew from finding out his true average, that he was not real!
LOL,, MIKE, I realize Rob is not a God, like Bill, but Opinions are ok in my book! I enjoy reading them all!
Do me a HUGE FAVOR MIKE,,,, GET ASLAN straightened OUT!! He needs HELP!! Bless his lonely womanless heart!
Do you have a sister out there MIKE? LOL
Don't walk on Thin Ice!
The idea that the ball hits the "pocket" behind the head pin.
If you manage to get the ball to actually hit the head pin from "behind" you are likely to leave something like 2-4-8-10.
On those shots, it would be a massive stretch to call that hitting the pocket.
Depending on the consistency of your shot making at that time, not moving might have been the best choice.Up until a few years ago I would have driven either you or Rob crazy as a teammate since I did not adjust off any ten pin leave. when I was younger my reaction would have been, "good shot, I got nine out of it!" Later it would have been, "darn, I just didn't throw it good enough."
This area covers the idea of random human errors in the shot making, and the distribution of those errors.
The idea is we just ain't perfect, so we just give it out best effort.
At the center I bowl at, the oil pattern (THS) is 10 to 10.Now I do adjust most of the time. For flat tens I move 1/2 board out. Yes Rob, I know this shouldn't work but I would say that for me it does at least 70% of the time. For ringing tens I move about 6" back on the approach. I don't remember a single time that this hasn't worked, at least if I've rolled the ball over my target.
I know I'm on the slower side (14-15mph according to the scorer) but if I try sending the ball straight down 13 I'll be lucky to touch the headpin on Brooklyn side.
Given that your ball hooks too much straight down 13, would it be correct to say your ball hooks too much anywhere (from 1 to 17) you played straight down the boards?
I'm trying to gauge the difference between the oil pattern I see and the oil pattern you see.
The bowler I see this skidder happen to most often is the guy who lays the ball down at about 13, and hits 11 at the arrows, has a break point close to 7. But occasionally he will miss his mark left and throw the "frozen rope" into the pocket, leaving a flat 10.
It's not truly a straight shot, but since it only hooks about 3 boards, instead of the 11 boards he expects, it feels like it went straight.
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