To Pin UP, or to PIN Down, That is the Question

[MICHAEL]

I have never had a ball drilled pin down so far. I ask a few people about the difference, and (does it really make a huge difference with a medium/high speed, medium rev bowler. A driller said to me, "Not that much"!

I get it with a low rev, or slow speed bowler, I can see how it transitions down the lane. But with the higher speeds, and more revs, does pin position really affect the movement of the ball noticeably?

Reason I am asking, thinking about having one drilled with pin down to see if it really makes my ball change that much.

Another question, does pin up, or pin down affect a asymmetrical, ball more then a symmetrical ball?

[tr33frog]

I just had my first ball drilled pin down and I love it. Though keep in mind, my preferred line is standing on the 34.5 with my right foot and throwing over the 12-17 boards. I need to record what I'm doing so I can count revs and speed, but I throw the ball at a pretty decent speed. For me, it seems easier to get the rotation on the ball. I believe you can see my old ball vs my new one in the 12 days of Christmas thread.

[Mudpuppy]

Pin up

[tccstudent]

Yes there is a very noticeable difference. I am like you Iceman throw hard with a good deal of hand.
I generally keep a mixture of both pin up and pin down. I cant say one is better then the other just depends on the lane conditions as to which one is better to have in your hand at the time.

[striker12]

iceman i can tell you more on that when i get the freeze and drill it pin up because then i will have a pin down and a pin up but my pin down one i shot a 234 with 8 stirkes in a row and that was when i had less revs then know

[JaMau24]

Generally speaking, pin up means the ball will hook later (back-end reaction), and pin down means the ball will hook sooner (steady hook; arching hook). Pin down is usually meant for longer oil patterns so the ball can start to hook sooner. For a THS, there are exceptions, but usually pin up is preferred.

[MICHAEL]

iceman i can tell you more on that when i get the freeze and drill it pin up because then i will have a pin down and a pin up but my pin down one i shot a 234 with 8 stirkes in a row and that was when i had less revs then know

thanks striker!! Let us know your thoughts!!! NICE shooting,,, 8 stirkes,,,, soon a 300!!! I can feel it,,,, how about you striker!!!!! (

[RobLV1]

There is one basic flaw in the original question: when you are referring to pin-up or pin-down layouts, are you referring to layouts with the same pin-to-PAP distances or just to the vertical position of the pin in relation to the finger holes? It makes a huge difference. Most pin-up layouts, unfortunately, put the pin above the finger holes, rather than above the level of the finger holes. This makes a huge difference as a very strong pin-to-PAP distance of 3 1/4" to 3 3/4" for most bowlers puts the pin to the right of, and just below the level of the finger holes, putting the pin above the finger holes increases this distance to anywhere between 4 1/2" and 6" depending on the PAP of the individual bowler, doing this effectively turns your $220 bowling ball into a $140 bowling ball. It only goes longer because you have increased the pin-to-PAP distance to the point where it flares a lot less, finds less friction, and goes longer before hooking.

Now, if you keep the same pin-to-PAP distance on balls drilled pin-up, vs. balls drilled pin-down, then you have a totally different situation. A pin-up ball with a strong pin-to-PAP distance will have the pin above the level of the finger holes, though considerably right of them (for a right handed bowler). A ball drilled like this will transition totally differently from a ball drilled with a pin with the same pin-to-PAP distance that is positioned with the pin below the level of the finger holes. The transition is the part of the ball's reaction where it changes direction from the forward motion of the skid and starts to hook toward the pocket. The pin down ball starts the transition sooner but transitions for a longer period of time, while a pin up ball starts the transition later but transitions for a shorter period of time. The difference is in length, not strength. They both change angle in the same amount, but the pin down ball has an arcing motion, where the pin up ball has a more angular "hockey stick" shape to it. What's the difference? The pin-up drilling seems to provide more "punch" on a house condition, while the pin-down drilling is smoother and more forgiving on tournament conditions.

Please remember that this comparision is for two balls with the same pin-to-PAP distance, not for balls with the pin arbitrarily placed above or below the finger holes.

[MICHAEL]

Generally speaking, pin up means the ball will hook later (back-end reaction), and pin down means the ball will hook sooner (steady hook; arching hook). Pin down is usually meant for longer oil patterns so the ball can start to hook sooner. For a THS, there are exceptions, but usually pin up is preferred.

I had several questions about the Pin up/down, like does it effect a symmetrical ball, the same way it effects asymmetrical balls?

Does it really effect High speed, High Re's bowlers much at all????

some say the Beatdown, and Brunwick balls are not as snappy as, say Storm. But rather have a more controlled, long curve into the pocket.

So if you had a Beatdown drilled pin up, would it be drilled wrong for that kind of a ball?

This last Monday I was watching some older bowlers, in their 70's bowling. They just happen to have low ball speed! I could see the movement of the their balls very clearly. It seems to me that the lower your ball speed, and less revs you have the MORE IMPORTANT the PIN, and lay-out comes into play, do to the physics/layout of the ball.

They had some beautiful movements into the pocket, and it was the BALL DOING ITS THING....IMHO!

They didn't have speed do, probably to health issues and age, but they got that ball down the lane, BAM, beautiful clean strikes.

[got_a_300]

I laid out and drilled the Storm Reign On that I won
on here last month with the RICO drill where the pin
is placed in the center of my grip span.

I love it as all of my other equipment is pretty much
drilled pin up or the pin is in one of the finger holes it
gives me a very long and gradual arching motion into
the pocket and hits as hard as any of my other bowling
balls do.

With my pin up balls I get a very sharp hockey stick hook
on the back end which can be a little hard to control some
nights and the pin in the finger hole balls doesn't give me
the big hockey stick type hooking motion but they are not
as gradual hooking as the RICO ball is either I guess they
are somewhere in between the pin up and the RICO.

I will post a pic of it when I get one taken probably be this
Thursday night I'll try and get it posted up after league.