Ball weight

[santos314]

How much does ball weight matter as far as hitting and pin count. Would a lighter ball be the equivalent if just thrown harder. I used to throw 16 when I was younger. I am now throwing lighter. Any pros/cons going lighter?

[C J]

Alot of pros to going lighter if you need to go lighter... A person who is capable of throwing a 16 efficiently with no problems may notice loss in pin carry if they go down to a 14.... Not from personal experience but I have seen/heard of people gaining pin carry by going lighter. This is because they are able to get the lighter ball down the lane better... A 14lb ball going down the lane 16mph is probably going to give you better pin carry than a 16lb ball going 12mph...

I personally think people the NEED to drop the weight alittle bit will benefit from doing so.

[santos314]

Yeah, I can't tell if it's helping or hurting yet...

[Hawk]

I just switched from #15 to #14 picked up a few revs in doing so.. I leave a light pin here and there no diffrent then pins left w/ the #15

[J Anderson]

Disclaimer: I have no experience going to a lighter or heavier ball. I started with 15# as a sixteen year old who only weighed 120 pounds and still throw the same weight even though I'm now 25% to 30% heavier.

The down side to going lighter is the tendency to muscle the ball. We see this with some of our junior bowlers who as they get bigger and stronger become erratic in their deliveries because the ball is now too light.

[bowl1820]

How much does ball weight matter as far as hitting and pin count. Would a lighter ball be the equivalent if just thrown harder. I used to throw 16 when I was younger. I am now throwing lighter. Any pros/cons going lighter?

You should read Ron Cliftons article: WHAT WEIGHT BALL? COULD 14 LBS BE YOUR "SWEET WEIGHT"?

Click here for WHAT WEIGHT BALL? COULD 14 LBS BE YOUR "SWEET WEIGHT"? (http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip14.htm)

[santos314]

Thank you Bowl1820 for that article, very informative!!!

[JasonNJ]

Speed is the number one factor in pin action so if you drop a pound in weight but gain 1 MPH speed then you will probably have better carry. Now if all things were equal and you were able to throw a 16lb just as fast as a 15lb then the 16lb ball would carry better.

[Aslan]

Alot of pros to going lighter.
Untrue. Many pros, as Randy Peterson reminds us on every PBA50 telecast it seems, are starting to transition back to 16lbs.


How much does ball weight matter as far as hitting and pin count. Would a lighter ball be the equivalent if just thrown harder. I used to throw 16 when I was younger. I am now throwing lighter. Any pros/cons going lighter?
Lighter deflects more. Heavier carries through the pins more. There's been no real evidence that deflection is a "good" thing, although many believe it is.


Speed is the number one factor in pin action so if you drop a pound in weight but gain 1 MPH speed then you will probably have better carry. Now if all things were equal and you were able to throw a 16lb just as fast as a 15lb then the 16lb ball would carry better.
That is incorrect. Entry angle would likely be the number one factor IF you could isolate factors...which you can't.

There IS some science behind 15lbs being an "ideal" weight...but it has to do with RPMs + speed + weight and ultimately how those all come together to create entry angle and momentum/force through the pins. The prevailing theory in the last decade was that by going to 15lbs...you still have enough weight...but the gain in RPMs results in the most ideal entry angle.

Some folks decided to push that envelope and start advocating 14lbs...but that never really caught on. 14lbs is believed to be "too light" and leads to too much deflection and not enough force through the pin deck.

The latest theories are that 16lbs is starting to be ideal again because the bowling balls have reached a technological level where RPMs are starting to cause the balls to hook too much and burn up too early...causing bowlers to look towards weaker covers like urethane and looking to heavier equipment with less RPMs.

The "ideal" is a 16lb ball with an ideal entry angle. It used to be hard to get that entry angle...and dropping to 15lbs gave you increased RPMs...and the weight trade-off was okay given the more ideal entry angle.

Where all experts are in agreement...is that a person should throw a weight they are comfortable with and can safely throw. Trying to throw a heavier ball than you can throw well (or safely if you have injury/age issues) is likely to be a detriment to your overall game and you'd be better off dropping in weight and getting the timing back in sync.

[JasonNJ]

That is incorrect. Entry angle would likely be the number one factor IF you could isolate factors...which you can't.

There IS some science behind 15lbs being an "ideal" weight...but it has to do with RPMs + speed + weight and ultimately how those all come together to create entry angle and momentum/force through the pins. The prevailing theory in the last decade was that by going to 15lbs...you still have enough weight...but the gain in RPMs results in the most ideal entry angle.



If the ball hits the proper entry angle then an 8lb ball would strike but in terms of pin action where you throw messengers around and trip pins then speed is the most important factor. The formula for kinetic energy is (KE = 0.5 • m • v2). So 0.5 x mass x velocity squared. Since the velocity value is squared it is a much bigger factor in the force produce in throwing pins around. So a 16lb ball at 16mph produces a KE value of 2048 while a 15lb ball at 17mph produces a KE value of 2167.5.

This is simple physics and I'm not going to take credit for this. I got this from Ron Hatfield a really well respected gold level coach.

[Aslan]

If the ball hits the proper entry angle then an 8lb ball would strike but in terms of pin action where you throw messengers around and trip pins then speed is the most important factor. The formula for kinetic energy is (KE = 0.5 • m • v2). So 0.5 x mass x velocity squared. Since the velocity value is squared it is a much bigger factor in the force produce in throwing pins around. So a 16lb ball at 16mph produces a KE value of 2048 while a 15lb ball at 17mph produces a KE value of 2167.5.

This is simple physics and I'm not going to take credit for this. I got this from Ron Hatfield a really well respected gold level coach.

Yeah...ya can't take credit for Newton's work.

The point wasn't that ball weight was more important than speed...it's that entry angle will trump the KE...unless the KE was enormous (like firing the ball from a cannon).

Most people have heard this before, but to acheive the optimal entry angle throwing a straight ball...the bowler would have to bowl from two lanes over. Therefore, the game evolved into trying to get a ball to change it's motion and "hook" into the pocket. The speed you throw the ball acts AGAINST the ability of the ball to hook.

Think of it like two cars.

One is 1500lbs traveling 15mph. The other car is 3000lbs and traveling 25mph. If the cars attempt to make a turn on a gravel road...which car is more likely to make the turn safely? The lighter car, traveling slowly. The reason is the Kinetic Energy of the car is going straight and the combination of the engine and tires must act AGAINST the speed of the car in order to make the turn.

We've all seen (and folks like myself once were) bowlers that had a flat release and would FIRE the ball 19-20mph up the track. What do we say? "How come my ball won't hook?" It won't hook...because it's going too fast to hook. And if it doesn't hook, you can't acheive the ideal entry angle and thus...you will strike less.

Therefore, the entry angle is most important. Speed is great...and if you have the RPMs to get the ball to turn (hook) while also firing it 20mph...you're doing what the pros do. That's why I said 15lbs has been considered the "ideal" weight. It allows you to increase RPMs...which let's you throw the ball faster (more kinetic energy) and still hit the ideal entry angle.

But...any pro or coach or "expert" will always tell you the "ideal weight" depends on the bowler....BECAUSE...some bowlers can throw a heavier ball nearly as fast as they can a ball that is a pound lighter. Some bowlers are rev challenged and need to go down a pound in weight to help control the ball and get their hand around it.

And like I said, 16lbs is starting to make a comeback because the balls are reaching a very high level of reaction down lane...meaning you need to produce less RPMs and the ball can still find the proper entry angle.

It's all really complicated...because technically the Kinetic Energy equation only applies to the ball as it leaves your hand until it enters the hook phase. At the hook phase, the ball is starting to change direction...which is going to lower the speed...because you have Kinetic Energy acting in the perpendicular. Once the ball exits the hook phase...it goes into a roll phase. The ball can't generate additional speed in the roll phase...but it's mass is unchanged.

You end up with a long, boring equation that looks like (and I stress like because I don't feel like actually putting the real equation together):

[Skid Phase Kinetic Energy - Friction (lane)] - Partial Effect of Rotational Energy During Hook Phase (ball changing direction) + Minimal Kinetic Energy Gain in Roll Phase (little if any as ball grips lane and rolls forward).

Generally, the loss in speed from release to the time it hits the pins is 2mph. That 2mph is the net effect of the ball rotating, any directional changes, and the lane friction. I throw the ball in the 17-19.1mph range...which generally reads in the 15-17.5 range at the pins (where the lane gets your speed from for scoring systems that display speed).

This whole issue is also one of my pet peaves when I go to open bowling and see teenagers and college kids throwing 6lb balls made for toddlers. They fire the balls down the lane...and the ball just deflects when it hits the pins. Once the ball hits the first pin...now you have all kinds of new equations as the pins exert force on the ball...i.e. deflection.

This is officially the nerdiest post...since yesterday.

[santos314]

Dang! This thread just got way too sciencey for me....

[C J]

Untrue. Many pros, as Randy Peterson reminds us on every PBA50 telecast it seems, are starting to transition back to 16lbs.


I agree with you, many pros are switching to 16lbs.. However, I meant there are a lot of Pros in him going to a lighter ball as in the Pros vs Con debate...

I agree 16lbs is king if you can throw it efficiently and there are not any physical ailments preventing you from doing so... I could easily go to 16lbs but I choose not to because 15lbs is comfortable for me, I can put good speed on it and can really get behind it if situations call for higher ball speeds, and 15lb equipment is more readily available in pro shops... Every ball I see in stock in the local pro shop is a 15.

I had a 16lb El Nino when I was about 15 years old and I did not really like it that much, I liked my 15lb ball much more and usually left the 16lb ball at home. Granted I was only 15 y/o but that kinda just set the tone for me to just stick with 15s.

[santos314]

Back in high school we threw 16 pound because you were a wuss if you didnt. 25+ years later, I'm digging the 14 pound ball for many reasons...lol.

[C J]

Back in high school we threw 16 pound because you were a wuss if you didnt. 25+ years later, I'm digging the 14 pound ball for many reasons...lol.

Lol, throw what feels comfortable to you man. At the end of the day when the 14/15lb vs 16lb debate has been put to rest I think you need to have the right ball in your hands for the conditions you're on and put the ball where it needs to be.. If your ball is burning up before it gets to the pins I don't think it matters how much the ball weighs, there is gonna be some deflection. Also, if you hurt your wrist or something throwing a 16lb ball then it's not gonna matter how much it weighs because your ball will be in the bag and you will be at home on the couch with a bag of ice on it lol.

[Aslan]

I noticed I carried more 8-pins with 16lbs.

That being said...this is my last 16lb arsenal for awhile because I have a lot of 15lb undrilled balls waiting to be thrown. So, I'll be experimenting with 15lbs again shortly. 15lbs is easier for me to control and my rev rate is a shade higher...probably a better entry angle as a result. But...I leave noticeably more single 8-pins and 8-10 splits....which is annoying.

Would I consider 14lbs? Maybe. Just to try it. But if I'm leaving more 8-pins at 15lbs...I can only imagine the carry issues I'd have with 14lbs.

[Amyers]

I noticed I carried more 8-pins with 16lbs.

That being said...this is my last 16lb arsenal for awhile because I have a lot of 15lb undrilled balls waiting to be thrown. So, I'll be experimenting with 15lbs again shortly. 15lbs is easier for me to control and my rev rate is a shade higher...probably a better entry angle as a result. But...I leave noticeably more single 8-pins and 8-10 splits....which is annoying.

Would I consider 14lbs? Maybe. Just to try it. But if I'm leaving more 8-pins at 15lbs...I can only imagine the carry issues I'd have with 14lbs.

I've found my 8 and 9 pin leaves to be much less with my 14s than it was with my 15s it does seem like I leave a few more 10s

[LOUVIT]

Alot of pros to going lighter if you need to go lighter... A person who is capable of throwing a 16 efficiently with no problems may notice loss in pin carry if they go down to a 14.... Not from personal experience but I have seen/heard of people gaining pin carry by going lighter. This is because they are able to get the lighter ball down the lane better... A 14lb ball going down the lane 16mph is probably going to give you better pin carry than a 16lb ball going 12mph...

I personally think people the NEED to drop the weight alittle bit will benefit from doing so.

that is a great point. I have been scared to go to 14, I went from 16 to 15 and no difference in speed or carry. I think a 14 would gain speed and maybe revs.

[Aslan]

I'd like to see a list of pros throwing 14lbs. There might be some coaches advocating it...maybe some females, foreign bowlers, and seniors...but I keep hearing about some movement to 14lbs and haven't seen any big time PBA folks actually throwing them.

A year ago people were saying 16lbs was dead and that pro shops were going to stop stocking them and that more and more pros were going to 14lbs...yet the reality seems to be the opposite. Pros are starting to look at 16lbs again...and like I said, i haven't seen any major names move to 14lbs. I think 15lbs is still the dominant weight used in the game...probably will be for quite awhile.

[C J]

I'd like to see a list of pros throwing 14lbs. There might be some coaches advocating it...maybe some females, foreign bowlers, and seniors...but I keep hearing about some movement to 14lbs and haven't seen any big time PBA folks actually throwing them.

A year ago people were saying 16lbs was dead and that pro shops were going to stop stocking them and that more and more pros were going to 14lbs...yet the reality seems to be the opposite. Pros are starting to look at 16lbs again...and like I said, i haven't seen any major names move to 14lbs. I think 15lbs is still the dominant weight used in the game...probably will be for quite awhile.

Probably would be a short list if I had to guess.