What Incentives/Prizes do your centers have? [Archive]

1VegasBowler

10-15-2016, 01:15 PM

One of the centers I bowl at came up with some really nice incentives & prizes for the bowlers.

1) If you strike out in the 10th frame for all 3 games you get a $50 house award. (Limit 2/season)

2) Bowling Ball Jackpot. (For averages of 140 or better) There are 4 designated frames in each game where you have to have either all strikes or all spares. No combinations. If you can do that for those 12 designated frames you get your choice of a new Brunswick, DV8 or Radical ball. (For the 10th frame it MUST be on the first ball. Filler frame does not count.

(For averages 139 & under) - You have to have 9 or better for all of the designated frames.

Limited to 1 ball for every league you are participating in.

What does your house do??

JaxBowlingGuy

10-15-2016, 01:21 PM

We have a strike pot and spare pot based on your average. 169 and below has 4 frames a game they have to spare or strike. 170-190 has to match 3 strikes and game and over 190 has to match 4 strikes a game

Also have Kegler cash which is also average based where you match spares and strikes and pays 10x your entry.

ep1977

10-15-2016, 02:07 PM

None of the houses I bowl in do anything for the bowlers. The leagues themselves run various things like strike jackpot and others but the house has nothing to do with any of it. All the house does is raise the lineage every single year.

bowl1820

10-15-2016, 02:18 PM

They just changed the ones here.

strike in the 16th frame (6th frame of the 2nd game) get a free drink.
in practice managers count ( throw at full rack leave certain pins combo) get a pizza
shoot exactly a 200 game get a cookie
shoot 300 get a meal,drink & dessert
game ending in "16" choice of cookie,brownie or fries.

players pass for $21 unlimited open bowling

with your reg. rewards card (free) you get $40 rewards cash on it for every league you bowl.
plus you get rewards cash for every dollar you spend.

the preferred reward card (I think it was $15) gets you more, plus they put rewards money on it for just getting the card.

Now if you talking about what games the house runs.

We have Strike Pot, high game handicap, scratch, brackets

classygranny

10-15-2016, 02:22 PM

I bowl at two Brunswick centers (Bowlmor).

We get a league card. Good for 2 free games per week, and 10% discount on food/beverages (not alcohol).

In the summer they did a pass for $35, bowl up to 3 games a day for 3-4 months.

LOUVIT

10-15-2016, 02:31 PM

We have a strike pot. based on average of course, you have to strike in specific frames in all 3 games to win it. It's up to like 400 now. I may just get in soon since my average is so low I may have a shot. For some reason I am still a good pressure shooter....lol..last week they announced some awards for games and series, I don't know what that was about but they announced a 505 series and I just laughed and said really I can't even beat that....lol

I wish there was a high game pool like we used to have 1 or 2 bucks a game just to give you something to shoot for. I'm just too lazy to start it.

RobLV1

10-15-2016, 03:15 PM

Score 111 in the 7th frame and you get your choice of a free well drink at the bar, or a free game of bowling.

Mike White

10-15-2016, 03:28 PM

Score 111 in the 7th frame and you get your choice of a free well drink at the bar, or a free game of bowling.

If the bowler was participating in a USBC sanctioned event, this kind of incentive/prize could be in violation of USBC Rule 15.

Rule 15 – Gambling
A member of USBC, while bowling in USBC competition, shall not participate or be involved in the
operation of any gambling scheme which is in violation of any applicable law, where all or part of a
score bowled in USBC play determines the winner.
Contests or schemes which threaten the integrity of the game and/or entice a player to bowl beneath
his/her ability are strictly prohibited.

1VegasBowler

10-15-2016, 03:50 PM

If the bowler was participating in a USBC sanctioned event, this kind of incentive/prize could be in violation of USBC Rule 15.

Rule 15 – Gambling
A member of USBC, while bowling in USBC competition, shall not participate or be involved in the
operation of any gambling scheme which is in violation of any applicable law, where all or part of a
score bowled in USBC play determines the winner.
Contests or schemes which threaten the integrity of the game and/or entice a player to bowl beneath
his/her ability are strictly prohibited.

I don't see where this becomes an integrity issue or where it entices a player to below beneath their ability, because good bowlers want to be in the 100's by the 6th frame.

So I'll ask you this. Would you intentionally go for the 111 in the 7th as a 200+ bowler?

Common sense dictates you won't. Why? Because the best case scenario has you finishing at 201, and if your average is higher than that in a handicap league, you're taking a chance on your team losing points for the game and possibly for the overall total.

Personally, it's not worth the risk. I'd rather bowl the best that I can, and if I happen to have a 111 in the 7th, so be it. But I would never do it intentionally. EVER!

Mike White

10-15-2016, 04:08 PM

I don't see where this becomes an integrity issue or where it entices a player to below beneath their ability, because good bowlers want to be in the 100's by the 6th frame.

So I'll ask you this. Would you intentionally go for the 111 in the 7th as a 200+ bowler?

Common sense dictates you won't. Why? Because the best case scenario has you finishing at 201, and if your average is higher than that in a handicap league, you're taking a chance on your team losing points for the game and possibly for the overall total.

Personally, it's not worth the risk. I'd rather bowl the best that I can, and if I happen to have a 111 in the 7th, so be it. But I would never do it intentionally. EVER!

No matter what your average is, if you find yourself with 103 in the 6th, and you just left a 6-7-10 split, the 111 in the 7th incentive makes you decide which is more valuable.

Try for the 6-10 pins, to have 112 in the 7th, or try for the 7 pin to have 111 in the 7th.

Sure, at the beginning of the game you want to have more than 111 in the 7th, but things don't aways go the way you want.

I shown you one example of where the incentive could alter your decision to achieve a lower score.

Other examples come from the USBC itself.

You've shot scores of 205, and 205 for the first two games, and in the tenth frame you strike and then leave a 10 pin. If you pick up the 10 pin you shoot 206 otherwise you shoot a triplicate which USBC awards a "prize". Either way your team will win the game.

You are incentivized to do less than your ability.

fordman1

10-15-2016, 04:15 PM

Once a season every team gets a free Drink
Well over a thousand bowlers in leagues

If everyone on a team 4-5 bowlers all strike in the 7th frame of the 1st game the team wins a hand made pizza.

Throw a 300 or 800 get a Jacket.

Every league gets a fresh oiling and back end strip before starting.

Between leagues the tables are cleaned and floor is if needed. And you don't have to ask!

Every league member gets a 6 game free pass for summer bowling.

Every league member gets a post card notification for when their league meeting is and when the league starts.

They keep the place clean and have lighted parking with cameras.

Tony

10-15-2016, 04:25 PM

We have the various scratch and handicap pots, and strike jackpot. One of the things that's slightly annoying is with the strike jackpot that's currently at 500 plus to the winner usually has been getting shot at by one of 5 to 10 guts. Lots of guys buy tickets and if they win they offer a fee or split to one of the guys with a high average / strike percentage to take the shot.

Last week we were sitting at the table next to the guy when his ticket was drawn but when the announced it, the guy who holds high average was taking the shot, as karma would have it he threw a gutter ball, and that was in the 3rd frame of the 3rd game, the second game he shot a 300.

JaxBowlingGuy

10-15-2016, 05:23 PM

bowl1820

10-15-2016, 05:41 PM

Wouldn't USBC be violating their own rules in their "flagship" tournament (The USBC Open) for running brackets and side action ? Since the score bowled determines the winner

Here's the whole text of Rule 15 which address's brackets and side action.

Rule 15 – Gambling
A member of USBC, while bowling in USBC competition, shall not participate or be involved in the
operation of any gambling scheme which is in violation of any applicable law, where all or part of a
score bowled in USBC play determines the winner.
Contests or schemes which threaten the integrity of the game and/or entice a player to bowl beneath
his/her ability are strictly prohibited.

Penalty: Membership may be suspended or denied to anyone who is a participant or involved in the
violation of this rule.

NOTE: Side competitions/brackets in leagues/tournaments where the participating bowlers pay a fee,
optional or otherwise, and receive prizes for high game and/or series, with or without
handicap, do not violate the rule because these involve merit pinfall based solely on the skill of
the participant.

JaxBowlingGuy

10-15-2016, 05:49 PM

Here's the whole text of Rule 15 which address's brackets and side action.

Rule 15 – Gambling
A member of USBC, while bowling in USBC competition, shall not participate or be involved in the
operation of any gambling scheme which is in violation of any applicable law, where all or part of a
score bowled in USBC play determines the winner.
Contests or schemes which threaten the integrity of the game and/or entice a player to bowl beneath
his/her ability are strictly prohibited.

Penalty: Membership may be suspended or denied to anyone who is a participant or involved in the
violation of this rule.

NOTE: Side competitions/brackets in leagues/tournaments where the participating bowlers pay a fee,
optional or otherwise, and receive prizes for high game and/or series, with or without
handicap, do not violate the rule because these involve merit pinfall based solely on the skill of
the participant.

Makes sense then. I couldn't imagine there being a rule like that without some kind of expection given how many large tournaments run brackets and side pots

Mike White

10-15-2016, 06:05 PM

Wouldn't USBC be violating their own rules in their "flagship" tournament (The USBC Open) for running brackets and side action ? Since the score bowled determines the winner

Is there anywhere in those tournaments where bowling a lower score gives you a better chance of winning something, compared to you bowling a higher score?

JaxBowlingGuy

10-15-2016, 06:16 PM

Is there anywhere in those tournaments where bowling a lower score gives you a better chance of winning something, compared to you bowling a higher score?

When you didn't post the full rule the part below would be directly related to my comment on brackets and side pots since the score determines the winner. Now that the whole rule has been posted, they make an exception to brackets and side pots.

"A member of USBC, while bowling in USBC competition, shall not participate or be involved in the
operation of any gambling scheme which is in violation of any applicable law, where all or part of a
score bowled in USBC play determines the winner."

Mike White

10-15-2016, 07:24 PM

When you didn't post the full rule the part below would be directly related to my comment on brackets and side pots since the score determines the winner. Now that the whole rule has been posted, they make an exception to brackets and side pots.

"A member of USBC, while bowling in USBC competition, shall not participate or be involved in the
operation of any gambling scheme which is in violation of any applicable law, where all or part of a
score bowled in USBC play determines the winner."

I posted the whole rule, what I left off was the penalty, and an explanation of how it effects side pots, and brackets.

The Note isn't part of the rule.

Side pots and brackets are covered by what you quoted.. "in violation of any applicable law"

Since side pots and brackets aren't against the law, they aren't against USBC rules.

Also they don't provide incentive to bowl less than one's ability during that activity.

The 111 in the 7th drink award could in some situations provide that incentive.

Handicap tournaments for money provides incentive to bowl worse one's ability.

Not by bowling worse in the tournament, but in establishing an average to ultimately be used in the tournament.

Even the USBC main tournaments gives incentive by the grouping of bowlers into average categories.

1VegasBowler

10-15-2016, 07:36 PM

I posted the whole rule, what I left off was the penalty, and an explanation of how it effects side pots, and brackets.

The Note isn't part of the rule.

Side pots and brackets are covered by what you quoted.. "in violation of any applicable law"

Since side pots and brackets aren't against the law, they aren't against USBC rules.

Also they don't provide incentive to bowl less than one's ability during that activity.

The 111 in the 7th drink award could in some situations provide that incentive.

Handicap tournaments for money provides incentive to bowl worse one's ability.

Not by bowling worse in the tournament, but in establishing an average to ultimately be used in the tournament.

Even the USBC main tournaments gives incentive by the grouping of bowlers into average categories.

I don't know what tournament(s) you're participating in, but every tournament that I have been in doesn't allow you to establish an average during the tournament.

You either have to use your book average from the previous season, current season that consists of a certain number of weeks bowled until a certain date (if the current season is 10 pins more), or you have to use scratch average that is part of the rules, and that's usually 220 or 225.

fordman1

10-15-2016, 07:46 PM

Are we talking about what the center give bowlers or who runs the pots? Are you saying the center is running pots? Better be carful or they could lose their liquor license.

Mike White

10-15-2016, 07:58 PM

I don't know what tournament(s) you're participating in, but every tournament that I have been in doesn't allow you to establish an average during the tournament.

You either have to use your book average from the previous season, current season that consists of a certain number of weeks bowled until a certain date (if the current season is 10 pins more), or you have to use scratch average that is part of the rules, and that's usually 220 or 225.

Yes you establish your average outside of, and before the tournament.

If you know you are going to bowl in the tournament (any tournament) you have an incentive to bowl less than your ability such to receive more handicap, or be placed in a division that provides you less talented competition.

While bowling in the tournament, you are participating in an event that has given you the incentive.

"Contests or schemes which threaten the integrity of the game and/or entice a player to bowl beneath his/her ability are strictly prohibited."

The tournament would be considered a Contest.

The rules of the tournament, handicap or average divisions are the enticement.

It doesn't specifically say the bowling beneath one's ability has to occur during the contest, to be strictly prohibited.

With USBC modifying their rules so a bowler potentially uses their average from the USBC tournament(s) in future, it is providing that exact enticement.

Doghouse Reilly

10-15-2016, 08:16 PM

Handicap tournaments for money provides incentive to bowl worse one's ability.

Not by bowling worse in the tournament, but in establishing an average to ultimately be used in the tournament.

Even the USBC main tournaments gives incentive by the grouping of bowlers into average categories.

Okay, let's see if we have this straight.

If you bowl in a usbc sanctioned handicap tournament that has a money prize your violating Rule 15.

Because a handicap tournament with prize money is a contest or scheme which entices a player to bowl beneath his/her ability by sandbagging in league to establish a low average to use in said handicap tournament.

Okay so everyone that has bowled in a usbc city, state or national handicap tournament should be suspended.

Mike White

10-15-2016, 08:24 PM

Okay, let's see if we have this straight.

If you bowl in a usbc sanctioned handicap tournament that has a money prize your violating Rule 15.

Because a handicap tournament with prize money is a contest or scheme which entices a player to bowl beneath his/her ability by sandbagging in league to establish a low average to use in said handicap tournament.

Okay so everyone that has bowled in a usbc city, state or national handicap tournament should be suspended.

"Contests or schemes which threaten the integrity of the game and/or entice a player to bowl beneath his/her ability are strictly prohibited."

The contest is what is prohibited, so not the bowler, but the tournament director would be in violation of Rule 15.

If the bowler did in fact sandbag in preparation for the tournament, their violation would be based on the rules about sandbagging.

Doghouse Reilly

10-15-2016, 08:34 PM

"Contests or schemes which threaten the integrity of the game and/or entice a player to bowl beneath his/her ability are strictly prohibited."

The contest is what is prohibited, so not the bowler, but the tournament director would be in violation of Rule 15.

If the bowler did in fact sandbag in preparation for the tournament, their violation would be based on the rules about sandbagging.

The bowler would be in violation of rule 15 also, Because they would a participant in the contest.

"Penalty: Membership may be suspended or denied to anyone who is a participant or involved in the
violation of this rule."

Mike White

10-15-2016, 08:37 PM

The bowler would be in violation of rule 15 also, Because they would a participant in the contest.

"Penalty: Membership may be suspended or denied to anyone who is a participant or involved in the
violation of this rule."

It doesn't say participant in the contest.... it says participant in the violation.

Creating the enticement is the violation.

JaxBowlingGuy

10-15-2016, 08:51 PM

Are we talking about what the center give bowlers or who runs the pots? Are you saying the center is running pots? Better be carful or they could lose their liquor license.

2 of my leagues are ran by the president and VP of the league, but I did have one last year at another house that the front counter ran the brackets/doubles.

Mike White

10-15-2016, 09:11 PM

2 of my leagues are ran by the president and VP of the league, but I did have one last year at another house that the front counter ran the brackets/doubles.

Does the house when running brackets keep a portion of the entry money?

Last time I bowled in a Vegas league, I got in 8 brackets, won 6, and got 2nd in another. The guy who ran the brackets was offended that I didn't tip him any of my winnings.

I figured since 1st place, and 2nd place combined only paid 7 times an entry fee, the guy already confiscated as much as he deserved.

He said he didn't take any of the money, which was true, what he did was enter himself into every bracket without paying for the spots.

JaxBowlingGuy

10-15-2016, 09:31 PM

Does the house when running brackets keep a portion of the entry money?

Last time I bowled in a Vegas league, I got in 8 brackets, won 6, and got 2nd in another. The guy who ran the brackets was offended that I didn't tip him any of my winnings.

I figured since 1st place, and 2nd place combined only paid 7 times an entry fee, the guy already confiscated as much as he deserved.

He said he didn't take any of the money, which was true, what he did was enter himself into every bracket without paying for the spots.

Yep $5 off each bracket. Bowled a tournament a month or so ago that the house took $10 out of each bracket but failed to mention that until AFTER they paid them. Winner got $20 and 2nd got $10. Needless to say there were some very upset bowlers

fordman1

10-16-2016, 10:20 AM

Jeffb0077

10-16-2016, 11:19 AM

At our center they have brackets/blind doubles as well strike jackpot. The house takes a cut of each one and they run them all. Where I used to bowl it was run by an individual and they always took a cut as well, but it was run by one of the bowlers.

Mike White

10-16-2016, 01:03 PM

I have been collecting pots for years and take 10% of the top as do the others who collect other pots. None of us take any tips. If offered we refuse. this started 20 years ago when a guy who won $1000 gave a $2.00 tip. Usually the ones who complain about anything are the ones who would not lift a finger to do anything extra.
Our Brackets are $5 pay $30 for 1st and $5 for 2nd. Collector gets in free. There is a lot of work involved in collecting pots. $10 cut is too much that is 25%.

I think what is missing now compared to years ago is trust, when money is involved.

The person collecting doesn't trust that they will be properly compensated for their efforts via tips, so they take their compensation up front.

The complainer doesn't trust that the collector is acting proper.

You say the complainer wouldn't "lift a finger" and become the collecter... well who is going to trust someone titled the complainer?

Back in the day, in a scratch league, the guy who was the collector.. (we had side pots, no brackets) was about 6' 5" 250 lbs.

I think the only reason he was the collector was he just wanted to be involved, I don't think he ever won anything.

One day when I won the first side pot, after collecting I gave the standard tip, and put the rest in my pocket.

Some spectator asked how much the side pot paid.... I said I didn't know, I didn't count it.

The asked, How do you know you got the right amount?

I said... Look at the guy (collector) if he shorted me, what am I going to do.... kick his azz?

Thats more "entertaining" than, I trust him.

foreverincamo

10-16-2016, 03:00 PM

We have several jackpots going at a time in my league, but I've never even thought to ask if the house or the people collecting the money are taking a cut. We have brackets, Texas Hold'em, 2nd game mystery score, handicap jackpots, and a drawing where if they pull your name you have to throw a strike to win the jackpot. That jackpot is nearly $200 now. Not bad for one shot

dmet225

10-17-2016, 12:29 PM

Our place has 2 - if all players on your team strike in the 5th frame, the team gets a free pizza. The other is a Pot of Gold - you pay a dollar or two, and they draw 1 number for each game. If the last number of your score for all 3 games matches the numbers drawn, you win the pot. I think it's over $1,000 right now.

NewToBowling

10-17-2016, 12:39 PM

dmet225

10-17-2016, 12:44 PM

No. They draw the number near the end of each game.

NewToBowling

10-17-2016, 01:06 PM

The ultimate high would be getting a 900 series and drawing 0's for each game

Mike White

10-17-2016, 02:50 PM

The ultimate high would be getting a 900 series and drawing 0's for each game

And then have to split the pot with someone who shot 120, 130, 100.

fordman1

10-17-2016, 04:27 PM

In our Texas hold em they hold back 20%..$22 from every board. This money is given away $1000 to bowlers who get a straight Flush or four of a kind. All money left over is for tournaments in the summer 6 are held and prize money is $600-$300-$200-$100 what is left is divided up between all making all three cuts.

We have a lucky digit game where you buy tickets and if picked you pick a card between 1 and 10 and have to get that amount of pins to win. It takes 3-4 weeks to reach $1000.
After 6 weeks this year we have given away $17,029 in all the pots.

We are also missing a team this year.

NewToBowling

10-17-2016, 04:35 PM

And then have to split the pot with someone who shot 120, 130, 100.

Sandbagger

Mike White

10-17-2016, 04:55 PM

Sandbagger

When it comes to the "luck of the draw" I'm the worst.

In one league they had some money from things like strike frame, 50/50 tickets that they hadn't allocated.

To disburse the extra money they filled 60 envelopes with anywhere from $1 to $100, all consisting of just one bill.

There were 66 people who received a ticket, they drew 60.

I not only didn't win the $100, I was one of the 6 who didn't get an envelope.

On the flip side.

In another league they asked me to reach into the bucket and pull out a chip to determine the mystery score.

I pulled out 292. Probably the most difficult score to achieve.

Me and drawings... we don't get along.